Mar 21st: Let The Mayhem Commence... Maybe
England has yet to see a full scale political riot on its streets since the banks were bailed out with public money and the recession began to kick in. I'm going to stick my neck out (not that it needs to go very far) and say the inevitable street battles are about to commence in London on April 1st when the G20 circus come to town.
I'm a neutral observer in all this, take no pleasure in either aimless destruction or state brutality, but, for my own amusement, like to try and circumguess events and what will be in the minds of both police and protestors.
The police for their part will have been planning their strategy in a military fashion, based upon intelligence. They will have tapped the phones and monitored all electronic communication of individuals and organisations whom their intelligence regard as ringleaders or "known troublemakers". Undercover police officers will have infiltrated some of the direct action organisations taking part. Internet sites will be targetted by Special Branch and MI5 and all sort of psychological warfare tactics - to confuse, disorientate, or intimidate - will already have be implemented. A casual glance through the postings at Indymedia suggests this has already happened.
On the first day of the protests, Wednesday 1st April, it is a certainty that the police will use anti-terror legislation in order to stop people going about the business of protest. Targetted individuals will be held in custody without charge and there will be attempts to pen in any groups of protestors police fear may cause disruption to the life of the great city. This has all been seen before and can be taken as read.
What interests me are the tactics that will be used by the anti-banking protestors. Ah, you may ask, what is an anti-banking protestor? Well that's just a phrase I've coined this morning. (I'll file my copyright later).
I'm guessing - and I dont think you need to be Mystic Meg here - that it will be the banks who bear the brunt of the protests on 1st April. They have been instrumental in causing many of the problems of this particular recession and worse still they have been baled out with over a trillion pounds of public money. Fred Godwin for Guy Fawkes anyone?
In what form the anti-banking protests will take its hard to say. Perhaps it will be good-natured and humourous. Perhaps it wont. Will the protests be so centralised that they are easy pickings for the police? Will there be guerrilla attacks on random banks? Will there be Flash Mobs tactics used? Or will the whole thing pass off as a big happy clappy carnival of fun and frolics? Watch this space.
Either way I'll be watching from the comfort of my own sofa (I don't go to London for any reason these days). The first person to hear the words "a small group of violent troublemakers" uttered by either a politician or a police officer wins a coconut.
posted by Kevin Williamson at
10:33 AM
33 Comments:
He!h patient, you and the rest can rest assured that your protest and its resolve will be cared for.We have in place those who care for your right and make sure jimmy, we will care for you,and the blankets will be good scot!s material woven and cared like the lamb!s of Harris,and in that yer warmth and security can be assured.
12:15 PM
"a small group of violent troublemakers"
- Usually they're called western governments (and the minority corporate interests they represent).
And here is some of the recently purchased weaponry (using our taxes) that the state is going to deploy in order to protect the rights of shareholders to help themselves to trillions of our wealth and taxes -
Police to get 6,000 extra Tasers
BBC UK
19 Mar 2009
With the New Tory Party just recently passing its Victorian 'workfare' welfare reforms (with the help of their chums in the Old Tory Party) and superfluous amounts of unemployed working-class growing by the week, I don't think TSP's perspicacious and timeous predictions are that wide of the mark.
all the best!
ps
The return of the Victorian Workhouse-Poor Laws can be used to discipline the rowdy troublesome unemployed by starving them into quietude and quiescence.
I picked up the following on Tartan Hero's blog -
Stewart Jackson
(Shadow Minister, Communities and Local Government; Peterborough, Conservative)
Topical Questions - Oral Answers to Questions
Work and Pensions
House of Commons debates
Westmidden
2:30 pm Mon 16 Mar 2009
(TheyWorkForYou.com)
Stewart Jackson asked -
What discussions will the Secretary of State have with staff at Luton Jobcentre Plus about reviewing the benefit entitlements of the Islamist extremists who so disgracefully disrupted the Royal Anglian Regiment's homecoming in Luton last week, given that, self-evidently, they were not available for work?
There are also New Tory plans to re-define 'extremism'-
Anti-terror code 'would alienate most Muslims'
Guardian
17 Feb 2009
'Contest 2' would widen the definition of extremists to those who hold views that clash with what the government defines as shared British values
2:01 PM
So Joe, do you support
1. the execution of homosexuals,
2 the end of the right of an elected body to make law,
3. the imposition of religious law,
4. execution of adulterers,
5. the execution of anyone who insults Islam,
6. Jihad to create a global Caliphate.
2:26 PM
Know-nothing Sandy with his usual Daily hate Mail/Harry's Place blog drivel.
So Joe, do you support....
- Sandy's own fabulous British Government supports all the items on Sandy's personalised list, as it supports the world's most fundamentalist government. The one currentlu ruling in Saudi Arabia.
Indeed, the British Govenment has been selling this obnoxious regime billions of pounds of weapons for decades, and recently refused to carry out criminal investigations into recent allegations of fraud involving British merchants of death and high-ranking the Saudis.
The current Saudi Government of the wahabbi regime is America's oldest ally in the Middle East.
I'll respond to one of Sandy's trivial points, as they're too dumb to go into individually -
6. Jihad to create a global Caliphate.
- I've no idea what this meas as both terms 'Caliphate' and 'jihad' have been degraded and abused by know-nothing western racists pretending to be some kind of liberal champiins of democracy and civilsiation
If people want to live under a re-established caliphate what buisness is it of yours - unless you're going to deny people living in other countries their legal rights to democratically decide how their own communities should be organised and run.
Sandy pretending he's a supporter of liberal values and democracy, but denies them to others because he consider them too backward and savage to be trusted - how magnanimous and high-minded can you get?
Just like British imperialiam of old, the white man's burden and manifest destiny.
While Britian is carrying out Hitlerian war crimes abroad, how convenient that the excuse for these atrocities is to blame, demonsie and scapegoat the victims of British nationalism and imperialism.
9:02 PM
So that will be a "Yes" then Joe.
9:53 PM
I took part in some street demos during the G8's love in wi Geldof at Gleneagles. Poverty was clearly not made history but the polis sure did confuse, disorientate and intimidate me and my chums.
We'd gone out to protest about the hypocrisy of what was goin down in the big hotel, to have some fun and maybe meet some reasonably like minded peeps from Scotland and other parts of Europe. Some of us were so freaked by the actions of the forces of law and order that we may have done things of which we're no very proud.
Unfortunately the police succeeded that day in what i reckon was one of their main aims - to convince part timers like masel that these things are best avoided. Pointless violence (is there any other kind?) from both sides is inevitable and the mainstream media will always ensure that the pagger reflects badly on the demonstrators.
There are far better ways to register disapproval of the banks and banking system than to march in London on 1st of April. No yet quite sure what they are though.
5:44 AM
There are far better ways to register disapproval of the banks and banking system than to march in London on 1st of April.
- But you can go and march if you want, as we still live in a democracy, and freedom of expression is supposed to be what democracy all about. Indeed, we even go to war in order to protect it.
It's only when the wrong people start complaining and protesting does the British establishment go to some lengths to discourage freedom of expression to silence it, or hide it. You can have as much democracy as you want as long as you agree with those in authority!
Here's an excellent appraisal of these scare stories and the campaign to accustom and acclimatise the general public, and therefore justify in advance, forthcoming police violence against peaceful democratic protests and freedom of expression -
Bloodying the G20 protests
Lenin's Tomb
22 Mar 2009
I'll just highlight an article lenin references, exposing the violence, by a certain police unit, against those whom it considers want to establish a multi-ethnic multi-national caliphate, or maybe its just because these particular police are islamophobic racists -
Police officers in abuse case accused of 60 other assaults
21 Mar 2009
Gruniad
The police will torture you if you want to live in a multi-ethnic state such as a caliphate - but won't investigate British corporate corruption of British arms dealers and the most fundametalist regime on the planet, the Wahabbis of Saudi Arabia.
all the best TSP!
ps
for what its worth,
I have the greatest respect for Scottish Bobbydom and the work they do
pps
the economic crisis and the racism that's apparant put me in mind of the fascists and nazis of inter-war Europe, and the fact they existed because parliamentary liberal democracy was also seen as a failure, unable to address the problems of their day
3:12 PM
You can rest assured that the venue for this meeting will be well secure and the protestors will not get within a mile of it.As you point out the protectors of democracy will have their stooges inside the protest orginisations and also their goons in the marches and these will be the ones who start the disruptions and the police will zealously respond.
Also there will be the other self interseted groups within who to will be out for a good days fun the Blac Bloc, and so forth who enjoy a good day out with any disruption that they can do.
And while this is going on, inside the meeting you will have the defenders of democracy consorting and prostituting their belief as they decide how to snuggle up to the oppression that is China,to purchase their toxic debt.
1:17 AM
So let me check I understand this.
A large number of protesters will be coming to London from around Europe, where they are free to travel at will, on aeroplanes made in Seattle, Toulouse and Manchester, owned by Greek and Irish entrepreneurs who have made cheap air travel available to all, using fuel pumped out of the ground in the Middle East and refined in Grangemouth.
They will have organised their protest using computers built in China or Ireland and designed in America using a communications system originally constructed by the American military and developed into a world wide web by a British academic for an organisation on the French Swiss border run by 20 European States for the advancement of international nuclear research.
Once here, they will co-ordinate their activities using Finnish, Japanese, American and Korean mobile phones that allow a roaming facility so you can use them anywhere in the world.
Any cash they need while here can be withdrawn through cash machines that work in eight different languages and allow them to withdraw sterling from their bank accounts when they live in France and work in Germany.
And they will be doing this to protest about a globalised economy
11:49 AM
And they will be doing this to protest about a globalised economy
- Sandy, why don't you just post links to the latest Daily hate Mail editorial. That way you can save youself the trouble of typing out neo-con neo-liberal drivel.
This is Sandy, the anti-Irish islmophobic bigot but who also claims to be the champion of multi-ethnicity in England, who is now complaining about foreigners coming to England to indulge themselves in democracy and freedom of expression.
The people of the world will be in the English capital to protest about the lack of democratic decision-making, democratic accountability and transparancy in the running and management of the globalised economy.
They will be protesting about the effects that decisions, made in their name which affect their communities, are made in a hermetically sealed vacuum from which the general public are ruthlessly excluded.
In fact, these corporate-government beanfeasts and expensive jollies, paid for by the taxpayers, are symbolic of the way our rulers live and work, completely sealed off from the effects and consequences of their decion-making, on the lives of ordinary people.
As trade and commerce are now global and their treaties, agreements and organisation are now global, then its only right and proper that the general public is involved on a global scale as well.
Care to explain Sandy
why, in order to have all these so-called benefits you tediously enumerate, the planet and its resources have to be exhausted and destroyed by the western corporate capitalists which own and control them, and why billions of human beings are forced to live in poverty when there is so much wealth created ?
Obviously Sandy doesn't bother about such stuff as reading what the latest targets of his ignorance have to say for themselves, or what they are about -
Policy Platform
Put People First
26 March '09
Central London
Maybe Sandy hasn't noticed that the way the world economy has been managed and run, heretofore, with no participation or involvement by the general public has been a neo-liberal Washington Consensus economic and ecological disaster, which hassn't respected anyone's borders, even Sandy's precious British borders.
4:10 PM
Here are some economic basics Joe.
In order to create wealth, you have to make stuff. Capitalism is really good at making stuff. Nothing else comes close.
The world has been globalising since the Phonecians. It has been using free market economics since before Hamurabi. Interestingly, Hamurabi's code of law was the first to include corporate responsibility. Do you know what he did to builders whose buildings fell down?
Get over it Joe. Kevin asked what is wrong with the left. The short answer is you Joe. You, and the thousands like you are the reason the left will remain unelectable. There is no conspiracy. There is no secret society or cabal to keep the left out of power.
All the right needs to stay in control is a left wing of Joe 90s and their student politics that never grew up.
Perhaps rather than Joe 90, you should have taken the handle Peter Pan, because your politics and understanding of economics are based on Fairies, Neverland and a constant desire to fight Captain Hook.
Try growing up Joe. It is actually an awfully big adventure.
Actually, "Slightly Soiled" would be more appropriate for you.
4:49 PM
After abusing Islam, Muslims and the Ummah using western propaganda, Sandy's next target is democracy and freedom of expression and those whose crime is to takes their own views seriously enough to express them in public.
Sandy's original Daily hate Mail assumption about organised collective freedom of association and expression was,
...they will be doing this to protest about a globalised economy
This is just straightfoward propaganda. Normally I would say this was a lie, but as I've come to expect from Sandy, he's knows nothing about what he's talking about so. therefore. it can't be lies. To lie you actually have to know something about what you're talkning about, and he obviously doesn't.
Here are some economic basics Joe.
In order to create wealth, you have to make stuff. Capitalism is really good at making stuff. Nothing else comes close....The world has been globalising since the Phonecians.
- Globalisation (however you want to interpret it) is not what the protest is about. So this is rubbish.
Sandy claims there have always been free-markets, which I'm sure there has and I never said there weren't, but like today, they have never been undiluted.
There is no conspiracy. There is no secret society or cabal to keep the left out of power.
- Who claims capitalism or the way the current economic system(s) work is a conspiracy, and what has that to do with anything?
All the great 'world leaders' getting together to decide how the world is going to be run, and for whose benefit, isn't a conspiracy. It's just how the western state-corporate-capitalist mafia with the American godfather as its head, runs the world.
Kevin asked what is wrong with the left. The short answer is you Joe. You, and the thousands like you are the reason the left will remain unelectable.
- Unable to respond to intellectual rational argumentm Sandy does what he always does, calls people names, claims they are children who need to grow up. Presumably, using Sandy as their role model.
6:00 PM
Hi Joe,
Is it possible for you to get any more than a few words into a sentence without lying?
"After abusing Islam, Muslims and the Ummah..."
1. the execution of homosexuals,
All four Sunni schools of jursprudence agree on this. They only disagree on the method of execution.
2 the end of the right of an elected body to make law,
Only Allah has the right to make law. Mankind can derive law from these divine sources, but not create new law.
3. the imposition of religious law,
See the OIC declaration of Human Rights in Islam.
4. execution of adulterers,
See 1 above. They are only to be executed if they are Muslim. If they are not, then lashes will do.
5. the execution of anyone who insults Islam,
From 2. Qadi Iyad's, 'Ash Shifa', Vol 2, pg. 214
Truly whoever abused the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam or ascribed any fault to him or attributed any defect to his family, religion or his habit, or reproached him, or compared the Holy Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam with any defective thing with the objective of degrading his personality and prestige, he is truly an abusive person and deserves to be executed. We make absolutely no exception to this verdict, whether the insult has been committed intentionally or unintentionally. This has been the verdict of all the Ulema of the Ummah from the time of the Companions to the present.
6. Jihad to create a global Caliphate.
From Mosawi's thesis
Primary Jihad. This type of jihad, which requires Muslims to initiate war with the aim of conquering territory controlled by infidels, is not presently an option. Primary jihad typified the early period of the Islamic era. The shifting of the balance of military power towards Europe since the seventeenth century caused Muslims to retrench, and later ushered in the period of Western colonialism, which continues until the present day in different guise. The overwhelming technological superiority of the West renders primary jihad out of the question under existing conditions of gross disparity.
Grow up you stupid little man.
7:45 PM
Joe:
"All the great 'world leaders' getting together to decide how the world is going to be run, and for whose benefit, isn't a conspiracy. It's just how the western state-corporate-capitalist mafia with the American godfather as its head, runs the world."
If you didn't exist, the right would have to invent you. Keep up the good work son, you make Tories very happy.
7:51 PM
Claiming all Muslims
support such pratices is no more than the sort of racist abuse Jewish people were subjected to by the nazis.
Because there are some who might support these views doesn't mean that all Muslims do. To hold all people accountable for the views and actions of an individual, or some unrepresentative minority, is racism.
Collective guilt means collective punishment.
Sandy does object to people using democracy to voice their concerns in public. How unsurprising then, that Sandy also has the morals of a nazi gaulieter as well.
I could quote plenty of stuff from the Holy Scripture of other faiths, which isn't too flattering, but I don't ascribe the literal interpretation of such passages to all the current day followers and believers of these faiths.
Only ignorant racist bigots and fundamentalists, like you Sandy, interpret sacred scripture in such an unvarnished literal mannner.
You've got more in common with your supposed enemies than you think - but then, independent thinking isn't one of your strong points either, is it?
Your final paragraph reads like something out of Mein Kampf - threats from the East from oriental hordes attacking the herronvolk and civilisation as we know it. Only the twist being, this view is ascribed to our current official enemies, and we're the colonialists, already occupying our lebensraum.
Pure Dialy hate Mail comic book stuff.
Where's all Saddam's wmd then?
This was another threat to western civilisation as we know it, which turned out to be lies used in order to justify western war crimes and atrocities against our victims - in the same Sandy's parroting of islamophobic bilge is designed to do, make racist war crimes more easy to commit and morepalatable.
8:09 PM
Dear Joe:
Thank you for once again showing the depth of your stupidity:
The final paragraph, which you said read like Mein Kampf are the words of Ibrahim Mousawi, the PR director of Hisbollah.
The document was written in conjunction with Hilal Khashan, head of the department of Political Studies and Public Administration at the American University of Beirut.
I'm sure Hisbollah will be delighted with your analysis of the work of their senior management as "ignorant racist bigots and fundamentalists,."
Thank you again for being so helpful in displaying your stupidity for all to see.
I'll put the full quote in here for you to see, and perhaps actually read this time:
"Primary Jihad. This type of jihad, which requires Muslims to initiate war with the aim of conquering territory controlled by infidels, is not presently an option. Primary jihad typified the early period of the Islamic era. The shifting of the balance of military power towards Europe since the seventeenth century caused Muslims to retrench, and later ushered in the period of Western colonialism, which continues until the present day in different guise. The overwhelming technological superiority of the West renders primary jihad out of the question under existing conditions of gross disparity. This matter has to wait until the return of the Hidden Imam to assume his divine duties and spread Islam worldwide (Qassim: 47). In the meantime, Muslims, as is the case with Hizbullah, can engage in some sort of primary political jihad, such as advocating a political stand at its face value without contesting its inner implications, if the supreme Ayatollah in Iran warrants it."
8:29 PM
Who said Godwin's law wisnae foolproof?
9:12 PM
Sandy me old china,cant fault you the means of transport communication and the financing of it have all been created by capital.And that being for one thing and one thing only profit.
The capital and the investment of capital for the purpose of producing is owned by capital, yet non productive untill the production process and then in comes the truth of the production of wealth,that is created by the producers the workers who in the main are exployed by the means of production the owners of wealth.yet untill the production the capital has no value.
Your dislike of the Islamic culture,is the reason for this that their bigotry is the same as yours.
9:42 PM
Aberfoyle:
The reason I dislike Islam is that I am gay, and I see no reason why I should respect a religion that says I should either be stoned to death, tied in a sack and thrown off a high place and then hung.
In the words of Qaradawi:
"The schools of thought disagree about the punishment. Some say both should be punished the same way. (lesbians and gay men) Some say we should throw them from a high place, like God did with the people of Sodom.
Some say we should burn them, and so on. There is disagreement. The important thing is to treat this act as a crime.”
Can you give me one good reason why I should respect a religion that says that is what should happen to me?
10:13 PM
The final paragraph, which you said read like Mein Kampf are the words of Ibrahim Mousawi, the PR director of Hisbollah.
- Yes, and what has that got to do with Muslim folk everywhere?
All Muslim people, everywhere, aren't responsible for what some half-wit writes about - it's obvious Sandy believes in collective responsiblity rather than individual responsibility.
I've already pointed this out but Sandy's too thick to understand the point, and merely confirm what I've already proven.
Just because the BNP has definite ideas about what it is to be British I don't need to agree with them, and nor am I entitled to use their ideas to criticise and attack all British people as racists and bigots.
You and your fellow fundamentalist pals have a lot in common. Blind bigotry being one element and slavish unthinking adherence to propaganda being another.
The reason I dislike Islam is that I am gay...
- Is that why you hate the Irish so much, and why you hate left-wing politics which has done so much to stand up for and promote equal rights for gay people?
How ironic - a fascist bigoted right-winger who thinks his politics promotes and protects the rights of gay folk!
Maybe Sandy can tell us what Judaic and Christian Holy Scripture has to say on this matter that's so different from Islamic scripture?
12:22 AM
Sandy, i have spent some years in the Saudi Emirates also Iran and Iraq,it must be understood that in the islamic religion there is the fundamental belief by some that the next messiah will be born through MAN.Further i did find it disturbing that the female of the species is only there for the basic needs of their husbands.Further i found it more disturbing the male penchant for the younger lads,however not every Muslim is a rant raving terrorist.
Your sexuality is of no concern to me, what little love and happiness one can find in this harsh and uncaring world that we exist in is to be cherrished.That said that is not a open cheque for riddicule and hatred for that that you do not understand or agree with.
1:38 AM
Joe:
If I want to know the official Catholic line on an issue, I ask the Vatican. If I want to know about the Islamic line on an issue, I ask the four main schools and Sunni jurisprudence and the main Shia school.
This is called source material, a concept which is alien to you.
If you can get a Muslim on here to say that the execution of homosexuals is un-islamic, and the Sharia reason for this please do so.
I am a member of the left wing: I have been for thirty years. I disagree with you on many points because you simply regurgitate the badly thought out catechism of the insane left that has made socialism unelectable.
Grow up.
8:40 AM
This is called source material, a concept which is alien to you.
- This is demonising racist propaganda - and if I want to know the Daily hate Mail's views on its victims I'll read it. I don't need human parrots like you to tell me.
Sandy plumbs the depths of even greater stupidity - now he claims he's left-wing!
He's gay.
He supports freedom of expression, democracy and cultural diveristy.
He supports left-wing politics.
Except everything he defends is neo-liberal right-wing and everything he attacks is traditional left-wing.
Compared to Hezbollah, and Hamas even, how many gay southern Lebanese and gay Palestinians has the Israeli state murdered?
How many gay Iraqis and gay Afghans have the US and the UK murdered and maimed since their Hitlerian attacks in 2001 and 2003?
When did you start hating Islam Sandy - was it before Islamic fundamentalism was still fashionable in the West and supported and financed by the CIA in attacking Soviet-Occupied Afghanistan and who then ferried bin Laden's mujihadeen fighters to the Balkans to help fight Serbia?
Was it before Israel supported and funded Hamas in orer to undermine secular Palestinian politics?
Or after?
I disagree with you on many points...
- You can disagree all you like. I couldn't care less.
The fact your worthless opinions aren't based on rational arguments only shows how meaningless you and your views are.
...because you simply regurgitate the badly thought out catechism of the insane left that has made socialism unelectable.
The fact is that most of my views are broadly supported by the rest of my community, if opinion polls are anything to go by -
- anti-war
- anti-poverty
- the UK government to stop supporting the violent racist fundamentalist regime in Israeli
- the UK government to stop supporting the fundamentalist regime in Saudi Arabii
- the UK government to stop supporting and obeying the orders of the violent fundamentalist regime of America, and to follow a more independent path in foreign policy
- the UK government to adhere to the conventions and statutes of international humanitarian law
- anti-nuclear power
- anti-trident
- etc etc on and on
It's the British government who are out of step with the general public - that's why the government has to lie and carry out massive propaganda campaigns and disseminate racist scare stories about evil Saddam and his links to Al Quaeda and his arsenal of WMD - and how Hezbollah is going to come in the middle of the night to take all our gay population away etc etc
2:27 PM
Joe:
You have already proven yourself to be an idiot here and elsewhere.
Calling Hisboillah's upper management a bunch of "ignorant racist bigots and fundamentalists" was a real classic.
You have done to yourself much more damage than I could ever have dreamt of.
Keep up the good work,
Sandy xxx
3:13 PM
Calling Hisboillah's upper management a bunch of "ignorant racist bigots and fundamentalists" was a real classic.
- Of course they are and I have never said they weren't. Same with Hamas. Same with the current Iranian regime.
Hezbollah, Hamas are also entitled to protect themselves, and their communities against illegal unprovoked aggression and illegal occupation by the likes of the racist plague of the Israel fundamentalist state and its supporters in the UK. Same with Iran.
Just because you disagree with someone else's politics does not entitle you or anyone else to carry out violent invasions, attacks, ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Of course, Sandy out of step as usual with reality - it seems your own precious gang of racist mass-murderers (gay and otherwise) in the British Government are sucking up to Hezbollah. Fancy that.
Here is a real documantary source -
Global Security: The Middle East
Foreign ffairs Committee
House ofCommons
UK Parliament
04 Mar 2009
(uncorrected transcript of oral evidence)
See Bill Rammell of the FCO nad his first response, second paragraph -
Bill Rammell: It was clearly your recommendation. [Laughter.] There has been an ongoing debate. Your recommendation was part of that. We have reconsidered the position in the light of more positive developments in Lebanon, such as the formation of the National Unity Government, in which Hezbollah is participating. For that reason, we have explored establishing contacts. There was a first meeting, of which you may be aware, where a Conservative delegation of MPs and peers visited the Foreign Affairs Committee within the Lebanese Parliament. One Hezbollah Member was present for that discussion. We will seek further discussions.
Our overriding objective within that is to press Hezbollah to play a more constructive role politically and move away from violence. We keep those things under review, we consider the circumstances and what is happening on the ground and we listen to all sorts of voices, including yours.
In the same way you don't hate Saudi Arabia regime because they are our official friends and allies (don't laugh) - You can stop hating Hezbollah now, as they aren't our official enemies no more.
Don't you just love British hypocrisy!
5:45 PM
I'm much more worried by Scottish Islamists Joe, such as The Glasgow branch of Hamas, the Saeed family.
Sohaib Saeed of the Scotish Islamic Foundation and brother of Osama Saeed the SNP Candidate for Glasgow East, said in an article in the Guardian: “The scholarly figure widely considered to be the world's chief proponent of moderate Islam is Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the Egyptian-born Islamic jurist who heads the European Council for Fatwa and Research. Mr Qaradawi's rulings are recognised by Muslims around the world as reflecting the balanced nature of Islamic law and its relevance to modern life. This is the recurrent theme of his programmes on Arab television channels, as well as the popular Islam Online website, for which he acts as patron.”
On Islam Online, we can see an example of Mr Qaradawi’s moderation: "Almighty Allah has prohibited illegal sexual intercourse and homosexuality and all means that lead to either of them. This perverted act is a reversal of the natural order, a corruption of man's sexuality, and a crime against the rights of females. “
He continues:” Muslim jurists hold different opinions concerning the punishment for this abominable practice. Should it be the same as the punishment for fornication, or should both the active and passive participants be put to death? While such punishments may seem cruel, they have been suggested to maintain the purity of the Islamic society and to keep it clean of perverted elements."
The Fatwa on Islam Online cites another scholar, Sheikh Muhammad Saleh Al-Munajjid: “Islam emphatically forbids this deed [homosexual sex] and prescribes a severe punishment for it in this world and the next. How could it be otherwise, when the Prophet of Islam (peace and blessings be upon him) said: ‘Whoever you find committing the sin of the people of Lut, kill them, both the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.’
6:07 PM
I'm much more worried by Scottish Islamists Joe, such as The Glasgow branch of Hamas, the Saeed family.
- Of course you are, you know-nothing british nationalist racist bigot.
Unable to answer any questions put to him, or defend any of his views in a rational coherent manner at any point in a debate, Sandy starts to throw racist dirt in all directions.
Hamas - Islam - the Saeed family of Glasgow -
- only to a bigot do any of these have any real logical or rational connection.
By the way that's a libelleous smear.
I hope you've a good lawyer.
6:22 PM
Joe:
Let's play join the dots.
Hamas is a branch of Al Ikhwan in Palestine.
The MAB was founded by Kamal Helbawy, spokesman for Al Ikhwan in Europe as the brotherhood's gateway organisation in the UK. Helbawy described the relationship as follows:
"Many brothers come to MAB meetings, but few have the talent or the time needed in study to advance on to the Ikhwan."
Sohaib Saeed and Osama Saeed run the Scottish branch of the MAB. I have heard a recorded interview where Helbawy describes Osama Saeed as,".. our man in Scotland" in a discussion about Al Ikhwan.
The Scottish Islamic Foundation was set up by the Saeed family to implement the Al Ikhwan training program.
At the SIF conference, the main speaker was Tariq Ramadan, the grandson of Hassan al Banna, the founder of Al-Ikhwan.
At the SIF first training weekend, the keynote speaker was Kamal Helbawy. I met him there.
Osama Saeed took Anas al Tikriti and Mohamed Sawalha, head of Hamas political committee to a meeting with Fabiani at Holyrood.
Now, as you have already described Hamas as:
"ignorant, racist bigots and fundamentalists" I assume you apply that with equal measure to the Saeeds who are part of this organisation.
So far Joe, you have called me a racist bigot, Hamas racist bigots and Hisbollah racist bigots.
You really are an incredibly stupid little man.
Unless of course you are just applying the slogan: "We are all Hamas now" and transliterating that to "we are all fundamentalist racist bigots now."
Choob.
8:48 PM
Ye see Sandy, you through the muck around to those who disagree with you,are you so unhappy in your own skin.
My politics have had very little airing one this blog site and yet you choose to riddicule that what you no very little about in regard to that issue,again attacking with riddicule.If as you say you are of a left political persuassion is that the new left right centre left or centre right left,or do you have your very own anachronism for your belief,for all of them above are just fence sitters and you know what happens when you sit on the fence to long you get a pailin up your arse.(DO NOT TAKE THAT AS AN AFFRONT TO YOUR SEXUALITY FOR THAT IS NOT THE INTENT).
The topic for this blog was the right to protest if you wish to continue can you please get back on track.I see the English Government, and its agencies of suppresion the police and security forces have had meetings with the topic being this summer being the summer of discontent, and they have been talking about having the boys in green the army patroling the streets to suppress your democratic right to protest.They fear quite justly that, their are going to be a lot of pissed of subjects excersising their right to demonstrate not just out of moral indignity but also about job losses home losses and the loss of their posessions.Surely this is what is the main concern for you Sandy, and your left wing buddies,the working disposessed and the middle class disposessed who will be feeling the reality of what it is like for most who live in a democratic capitalist state.By the way that democratic capitalist state is now one of State Capitalism, or has that one passed by your supposed left wing comfortability.
9:14 PM
I appreciate your comments aberfolye!
Sandy took a break to get in touch with his fellow racist cronies on Harry's Place blog, in order to get more filth to throw around, as he is obviously not really up to scratch on the laest info needed when it comes to personalised abuse of named individuals - a particular tactic so redolent of fascist and the right-wing extremists such as Sandy.
What an incredible amount of detailed knowledge Sandy seems to display regarding this happy British multi-culturalism he is such a self-proclaimed champion of
- and all of it used to carry out islamophobic attacks on his British Muslim victims.
It's obviously because, as he claims - he's gay, left-wing, British, tolerant of others and British - that he hates Islam
Hamas is a branch of Al Ikhwan in Palestine
- Wrong. As usual.
Habib Clarifies MB Stance towards Hamas, the Palestinian Cause
The Muslim Brotherhood (Ikhwan)
12 Jube 2008
Hamas, no longer has any political ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, and if it did so what?
Obviously, you prefer the anti-democratic American dictatorship of the mafiosa-gangster and hood, President Mubarak.
Here is Ikhwan's website again, the political organisation Sandy is desperately trying to demonise -
The Muslim Brotherhood -IKhwanweb
Official English Website
You'll find all the latest news of beatings, rape, torture, executions, kidnappings, murders and mass-murders, all carried out by the yankee gangster regime of Mubarak - which is also typical of American allies anywhere in the Global South-Third World.
Unlike ourselves here in the UK,
the Egyptian public aren't allowed the luxury of being able to demonstrate, peacefully protest or vote for the political parties of their choice without the approval of Washington first.
If Egyptian's were allowed a democracy by the godfathers in Washington, then the Brotherhood would most certainly be the government, bust as the Muslim Brotherhood won't follow American orders, then ordinary Egyptian's can't be trusted with democracy and be trusted to vote for America's choice of party, in free and fair elections.
So much for Sandy's self-proclaimed values of being a supporter of democracy, freedom of expression and cultural diversity, when clearly you aren't especially when you critise opponents of America's middle east dictatorhips becasue theyd don't support dictatorships.
Sandy,
what are the links bewteen Al Quaeada and Hamas; or Sadam and WMD; or Al Quaeda and WMD; or WMD and Hamas?
There is such a variety of pick'n'mix racist paranoid delusions to choose from - I don't know how Sandy ever manages to make up his mind what one to invent next?
If you are going to criticise Hamas for being the democratically elected government of the Palestinian National Authority - do it properly.
Hamas has more definte links, other than ideological, to American dictatorships in the region, especially with the most repressive, anti-gay, anti-democraic and fundamentalist in the region, Saudi Arabia, which is supplying billions to help rebuild Gaza after the recent US-UK-Israel slaughter.
Now, as you have already described Hamas as:
"ignorant, racist bigots and fundamentalists" I assume you apply that with equal measure to the Saeeds who are part of this organisation.
- Which means Hamas, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood are fundamentally no different from the US or UK governments, but then, Hamas and Hezbollah don't go about committing the same war crimes as Hitler against Afghanistan and Iraq and Occupied Palestine and Lebanon etc etc, butchering, maiming, terrorising and enslaving tens of millions of victims because their leaders refuse to follow their American orders.
Sandy is an ignorant piece of disingenious, disembling fascist slimeball but it doesn't stop me from communicating with him - does that also mean I am the same as Sandy?
According to Sandy's chain of reasoning it does!
This is much in the same way, according to Sandy's reasoning, as his earlier assertion that there is more multi-culturism about, but also less, because borders aren't important anymore. There's more culture about, but at the exact same time, there's less.
So in the same way, Muslims are all just the same - a big anti-gay amorphous ball of hate.
And so, in the same way, I'm exactly like Sandy, no different!
Sandy is wrong (as usual) about Osama Saeed. He resigned from MAB long ago, as a spokesperson, but has founded the -
Scottish Islamic Foundation
in the meantime, to cultivate and encourage part of Scotland's glorious cultural mix, something I'm sure you applaude, being a self-proclaimed lover of British multi-culturism.
So far Joe, you have called me a racist bigot, Hamas racist bigots and Hisbollah racist bigots.
- Just because they mught be, doesn't mean you aren't, which you are. At least they have an excuse for their backawrad political views as they, and their communities, are or have been under illegal racist occupation and repeatedly and savagely attacked, brutalised and traumatised by the Israeli racist state and its supporters in the west.
Sandy, on the other hand has, no such excuses. He's just an ignorant bag of hate-filled daily mail reading anti-social pus.
Unless of course you are just applying the slogan: "We are all Hamas now" and transliterating that to "we are all fundamentalist racist bigots now."
- I might not have agreed with the politics of the Polish Generals and their dictatorship, but I certainly supported their right to self defence when Hitler attacked them in 1939.
Then, in 1939, we were all 'Polish', in the same way to today we are all Hezbollah or Hamas, whenever they and their communities are being subjected to racist attack, occupation and mass-murder for no other reason than they refuse to follow their western orders, but instead, insist they have a voice in the running of their own communities free from outside interference from the West.
If aberfoyle is till reading my comment, I hope he'll see that it very much relates to the right to protest, freedom of expression and cultural diversity and relates to the TSP article to which these comments are attached.
all the best!
7:15 PM
Joe 90, no doubt if i continue to voice my opinion on the Patient,i will catch up with Sandy again.Hopefully he is takin time out and going to the Poverty Truth Commision,for a dose of reality in what is the real threat to the Scottish public.
8:01 PM
From the Hamas Charter:
The Link between Hamas and the Association of Muslim Brothers
Article Two
The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the wings of the Muslim Brothers in Palestine. The Muslim Brotherhood Movement is a world organization, the largest Islamic Movement in the modern era. It is characterized by a profound understanding, by precise notions and by a complete comprehensiveness of all concepts of Islam in all domains of life: views and beliefs, politics and economics, education and society, jurisprudence and rule, indoctrination and teaching, the arts and publications, the hidden and the evident, and all the other domains of life.
Regarding Saeed, if you look at the FOI request on the Scottish Governemt website re the SIF, you will see that Saeed is named as a representative of the Muslim Association of Britain, which transforms itself into the Muslim Association of Scotland. For about a month he is Muslim Council of Scotland before finally settling on The Scottish Islamic Foundation.
This was to ensure the funding of £500,000 from and SNP government to an SNP candidate..
Look at the date of the interview you cited Joe and see if you can work out why yourself.
9:56 PM
Sandy with his bottomless pit of exacting iota about his Muslim victims. Always the sign of a true bigot - their vast treasure of meaningless paranoid detail about their targets.
Thanks Sandy
for confirming that your original info on Osama Saeed is as out-of-date as your latter-day fascism.
Sandy's original assertion
Hamas is a branch of Al Ikhwan in Palestine.
- I think you'll find that there are only ideological links Sandy but no organisation, political or physical links as has already been proven, between the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas.
Regardless that his earlier assertion has proven to be a lie, Sandy, without acknowledging he has been corrected, merely pretends he was arguing for something different.
Hamas isn't a 'branch' of anything but is a fully functioning independent, political party - and I've no idea what a 'wing' is meant in this context.
I'm sure Hamas does consider itself a 'wing' of some global movement or other. That isn't a crime, nor does it mean anything over above words written on bits of paper.
Unless Sandy has proof that there are more than just ideological and fraternal links existing between two similar political organisations
in the same part of the world, with the same hate-filled enemy trying to exterminate them, so what?
Hamas can also claim the moon is made of cheese, big deal.
Back to reality meanwhile,
Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood do have more tangible elements in common, than mere spoken words or printed text.
Recently, for instance, the Israeli Government, supported by the US and UK, tried to exterminate the democratically elected government of the Palestinian National Authority in Gaza. They are called Hamas.
No complaints from the champion of democracy, freedom of expression and cultural diversity, Sandy.
No standing up for gay people being butchered in Gaza eiether, by Sandy.
Similarly, American dictatorship of Egypt brutally represses Egyptian society imprisoning and murdering its opponents with impunity and with full US support.
The Egyptian dictatorship is the second largest recipient of US foreign aid, which comes mostly in the form of military equipment and training used to repress the Egyptian people.
This is what the American government and their human parrots, such as Sandy, refer to as 'democracy building',
ie carrying out systematic political terror campaigns and the mass-extermination of political opponents, that Hitler and Stalin would be proud of.
How apt that Sandy doesn't complain about the behaviour and crimes of America's brutal repressive dictatorships, or of the racist colonial war crime state of Israel (largest recipient of US foreign aid in the world).
Instead, Sandy prefers to blame the victims of American, British and Israeli violence for not living up to our own exalted western ideals, as personified by the likes of Sandy here.
Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood have much to learn from such a self-proclaimed champion of democracy, freedom of expression and cultural diversity as Sandy.
ps
Mubarak gets the kind of support at elections that Sadam Hussein would be proud of, but strangely the likes of Sandy and the Daily hate Mail are silent on the matter
Egyptian presidential election, 2005
wikipedia
Here's a good Egyptian blog -
3arabawy
11:20 PM
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